Articles | Volume 29, issue 3
https://doi.org/10.5194/hess-29-719-2025
© Author(s) 2025. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Expected annual minima from an idealized moving-average drought index
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- Final revised paper (published on 07 Feb 2025)
- Supplement to the final revised paper
- Preprint (discussion started on 27 May 2024)
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
Comment types: AC – author | RC – referee | CC – community | EC – editor | CEC – chief editor
| : Report abuse
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-1430', Anonymous Referee #1, 08 Jul 2024
- AC1: 'Reply on RC1', James Stagge, 03 Oct 2024
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RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-1430', Anonymous Referee #2, 25 Jul 2024
- AC2: 'Reply on RC2', James Stagge, 03 Oct 2024
Peer review completion
AR – Author's response | RR – Referee report | ED – Editor decision | EF – Editorial file upload
ED: Publish subject to revisions (further review by editor and referees) (21 Oct 2024) by Floris van Ogtrop
AR by James Stagge on behalf of the Authors (22 Oct 2024)
Author's response
Author's tracked changes
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ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (30 Oct 2024) by Floris van Ogtrop
RR by Anonymous Referee #2 (03 Dec 2024)
ED: Publish subject to technical corrections (06 Dec 2024) by Floris van Ogtrop
ED: Publish subject to technical corrections (06 Dec 2024) by Giuliano Di Baldassarre (Executive editor)
AR by James Stagge on behalf of the Authors (10 Dec 2024)
Author's response
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General comment
The study presents a theoretical analysis of the annual return period of standardized variables (such as SPI) commonly used in drought study. I found the topic of the research of interest, as someone that fully support a better clarity on terms such as ‘100 years drought’ often used in the community without robust statistical support. The paper is well structure and easy to follow. I have, however, two major concerns that make hard for me to recommend the publication of the paper in its current form:
1) The authors generate 10 million years of data based on only two criteria: i) each month is standard normally distributed, and ii) a uniformly weighted backward average. As also stated by the authors, the only factor that generates autocorrelation in this procedure is the moving window, and any other factor causing persistence is ignored. This is a very strong assumption, as the scientific literature is full of studies on the tendency of rainfall to persist in the dry status, clustering of rainfall days, burstiness, etc. My question for the authors is: how much the theoretical time series generated with this approach resemble actual SPI time series? The authors do not provide any evidence that the theoretical values behave like real values, so any conclusion on the statistical behaviour of the theoretical data can be completely meaningless in real conditions, unless the author demonstrate that real and theoretical data are similar (statistically). My statistical background is not good enough to suggest a “validation” strategy (autocorrelograms?), but without this key step the results reported in this study cannot go beyond a mere mathematical exercise not suitable for a scientific publication.
2) The way that SPI (or any other standardized index) is used in real applications is often for the detection of drought events (i.e., consecutive periods with values below a certain threshold). In this context, the analysis of annual minima is not really in line with what is commonly used by practitioners. To refer to one of the examples reported in the manuscript “The idea of experiencing an extreme flash drought at least once every other year…”: no one is going to define as an “extreme drought event” a single isolated anomaly on a 15-day period (which, by the way, is a very unusual time window for anomaly computation). The concept of consecutive time steps under a given threshold is a key factor in defining a drought, and, in this regard, your analysis on the annual minima may have very limited connection to what is commonly used from claims such as “a one in 100 years drought”. A much more interesting analysis would be on the drought periods, and their effective (annual) return period (including the effects of inter-arrival time, etc). I understand that this may diverge too much from the goal of this study, but, at the minimum, the focus on annual minima (rather than event) should be super clear from the start (title, abstract, motivation, etc.) and the caveats in using these results when discussing events should be clarified.
I am aware that the authors have a clear view on the limitations of this study in regards of both topics, as evidenced in some parts of the discussion. However, I still believe that a proper analysis of the base assumptions of the study need to be added before considering valuable the obtained outcomes.
Beyond these two major criticisms, I report some additional comments that I hope will be useful to improve the overall quality of the manuscript.
Title: the focus on annual minima should be clear already in the title.
L12. Same here, exceedance of annual minima…
L17. Something on the extreme clustering should be mentioned here.
L112. There is nothing that backup this claim. As a key factor, a proof of this assumption is absolutely required.
Fig. 1. Would an analogous plot for real SPI-6 values have a similar shape?
L172. L-moment and l-moment are both used. Please use a consistent terminology.
L175. “…is exactly symmetrical…” Is this statement true? It is true that SPI are derived from a standard normal distribution, but as a rescaling of a Gamma (usually, or any other left bounded distribution), SPI shouldn’t be symmetrical. I do not think that this is a problem in your study, but I would be carefully rewording this sentence.
L183. How did you define a good fitting based on the AIC? Which values? Significance?
L191. This section is a little confusing. As currently stated, it may give the impression that a “normal” distribution is followed. However, in my understanding, the 3-parameter lognormal distribution is still a distribution designed to reproduce extremes, it is only not part of the GEV family. In the current form, it seems that the data do not follow the behaviour of extreme values but that of “normal” values, but this is not the case. I think the section need to be reworded to better clarify what does it mean (in practice) that the data follow the 3-parameter lognormal distribution rathe than the GEV. Most of the readers of the papers may not be expert in statistics and may come up with a wrong conclusion.
L212. The log transformation is commonly deployed to use normal distribution on extreme values, so this is coherent with the extreme nature of annual minima.
L215-216. It is not clear if these studies used the generalized normal for extreme values, similar to the ones analysed here.
L232. It would be useful to report an example for the GEV too. Also, I don’t see any AIC values reported. How did you use AIC to evaluate the goodness of fit? Are all the fittings statistically significant?
L283. Stagge et al. (2016)
L288-295. Albeit true, this effect may be amplified by the particular method used to generate the data. In real SPI time series, some effect of persistency will be present even in SPI-1 or SPI-3, otherwise the concept of “drought event” would not be possible in such time series.
L307. For which SPI value? -2?
L311-313. This is true only if annual minima are analysed. If events are analysed (consecutive periods under a certain threshold), then the daily or monthly time scale should only have minimal effects.
L323. This should read “Discussion”.
L344. Again, how can you confidently claim that those are minimal deviation, as they are an integral part of how precipitation behaves.
L351. Berman (1964).
L365. A figure on the extreme clustering is needed to better show this concept and its effects. In general, this part seems really useful but very poorly presented and discussed.
L371-372. This is true for long accumulation periods only.
L375. Again, a reference to extreme clustering is made but without support of data showing the effect to the readers.
L379. There is a typo.
L383. Again, the focus on annual minima is not clear here. Annual exceedance probability can be computed for any metrics derived from SPI time series.
L400. It should be observatory (also in other sections of the text).
L418. …period).
L419-420. This is related to a common understanding of how probability works, and it has very little to do with the results of your study. Similarly, someone could argue that saying that a minimum annual SPI < -2 has a certain occurrence probability (as reported in this study) is completely different than the probability of a certain drought event (with a given severity) to occur.